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In this video,

Vishrant sits down with Dr Kevin Reese (Inner Peace with Dr Reese) for another riveting interview on becoming a Jedi, deprogramming the mind, learning acceptance and surrender, going through the dark night of the soul, satori and enlightenment amongst other topics.

Tune in for an episode of undiluted truth interjected with fun and humour. Vishrant and Kevin continue chatting after the official podcast interview ends, so make sure you watch til the end!

Support Vishrant’s ongoing worldwide teachings by donating at: https://www.vishrant.org/donate/

Here are links to more interviews of Vishrant that you can watch:

Living as Awareness – Inner Peace with Dr Reese: https://youtu.be/dP1GJc929XI

Enlightenment with Prem Vishrant – Inner Peace with Dr Reese: https://youtu.be/dP1GJc929XI

Love Osho Podcast Interview with Swaram: https://youtu.be/7VO1mAqqJcU

How Osho Rajneesh Changed My Life – Interview with Prem Vishrant: https://youtu.be/3LTNip0Vwfg

Buddha at the Gas Pump: https://youtu.be/81HjyMJqkt4

To view more videos and receive notifications subscribe to The Vishrant Buddhist Society – YouTube.



Interview transcript:

Dr. Reese
All right. Ready to play, Vishrant?

Vishrant
I love play.

Dr. Reese
Welcome. Welcome back to the podcast for the third time. My first question is how do I become a Jedi?

Vishrant
Haha. Well, you’ve got to work out what a Jedi is first. Why would you want to become a Jedi? What is it about Jedis that you would like to be?

Dr. Reese
Well, I actually did an episode on it last year, and I saw you just did a whole Satsang on it. I think, you know, Jedi represent someone who has kind of left society, in a way, you know, almost like a monk, an enlightened person, if you will. But George Lucas never went all the way with it. He had, because of science fiction, he had to keep the good guy, bad guy thing, right? So, but you know, they had it can turn to the dark side. So, you know.

Vishrant
So to me the Jedis were the good guys, and they embraced the noble arts of the heart, of giving and taking care of. Whereas the Sith lords, the other type of power monger, were into selfishness, into everything for themselves.

Dr. Reese
Greed, yeah.

Vishrant
And the biggest mistake that was made by George Lucas was he doesn’t realise that you need to have both in a person to be whole because all human beings have both in them, and all inside needs to be embraced, totally.

Dr. Reese
Yeah.

Vishrant
It doesn’t necessarily mean that you let the dark side run, you don’t let the killer run, the thief run, the dishonourable one run, but you embrace it, you hold it in tenderness. And as Darth Vader said, the power is in the dark side. “Come to the dark side, Luke,” it’s where the power is.

Dr. Reese
Yeah. Why is it so challenging to drop the thoughts, drop the ego, drop the desires, when in actuality, they’re not even real? They’re an illusion. So, if it’s an illusion, why can’t we just…

Vishrant
Because you’re programmed not to, you’re programmed to do what you’re doing. You’re programmed to constantly think actually, which is not what you did before you went to school, you pretty much lived in reality before you went to school, you were present to what was happening around you. But you and I went to school, we learnt to live in our heads so we could actually pass exams, get a degree or something later, by remembering things and repeating them. And so, most adults live in their heads because they’ve been programmed to at school for 12 years.

Dr. Reese
So, enlightenment is really a deprogramming?

Vishrant
Absolutely.

Dr. Reese
Higher consciousness?

Vishrant
Well, enlightenment is not a deprogramming, but a mind that will support enlightenment has to be deprogrammed. So, enlightenment itself is just awareness aware of itself continually. That’s enlightenment, but for that to be supported by the mind, the mind has to be programmed to support it. If the mind is constantly getting involved in resistance, contraction, it’s not going to support enlightenment. It’s not going to support awareness staying on awareness. And so, the mind has to be developed to a degree where it doesn’t contract, doesn’t resist life and this is achieved through the practice of acceptance of what is, acceptance of the way the world is, as it is. The acceptance of ourselves as we are, rather than how we’d like to be.

Dr. Reese
It’s very challenging.

Vishrant
Oh, yeah. Any teacher that tells you that it’s easy is lying to you. It is the hardest thing in the world to raise your consciousness levels. You might as well climb Mount Everest, it’d be easier, because you’re going against nature, you’re going against your own primal survival mechanism in the mind, which is to resist, which is to defend, which is to survive. Someone who’s awake has basically surrendered unconditionally to truth, that means they’ve died.

Dr. Reese
You also have to be willing to die, right? I mean, you have to like, that surrender is so.

Vishrant
Well you can’t play if you’re not willing to surrender, if you’re not willing to surrender, you can’t play. It’s that simple, you’ve ruled yourself out. Surrender is the key. I went to the, I was sick for a while and I went to the university and studied at the university for six months, all the old masters, Hindus, Sufis, Buddhist. And they were, at the bottom line of every teaching, was surrender. I came away from the university after six months of studying all the old masters knowing that the answer was surrender, it is the doorway. And we look for something else because that’s so hard to do, because it’s a non doing. So, we look for something else, we get distracted in lots of other things, collection of knowledge, usually, and thinking that somehow we’re raising our consciousness levels.

Dr. Reese
Look at all the books behind me.

Vishrant
Well, I have those in my head somewhere because like everybody else, I thought collecting knowledge was the way to go for many, many, many years. And I collected knowledge, and knowledge, and knowledge, and it didn’t get me anywhere. It does not raise your consciousness levels, does not heal the wounds of your heart. It’s actually, in a lot of ways, in the way. Probably the seeker’s greatest downfall, the collection of knowledge rather than the practice.

Dr. Reese
Yeah. So, the thing that a lot of people don’t talk about enough, I think, is the so called dark night of the soul, or a purging, as you may call it. Dark night is kind of overused a lot now, but the bottom line is, when we’re on this path, and we’re deprogramming, man, it gets brutal.

Vishrant
Yes.

Dr. Reese
And so, this isn’t very appealing, Vishrant. Okay, come get the best, most amazing existence of your life. But first, you got to go through hell!

Vishrant
Yeah, that’s true. Whatever’s inside has to be let out, whatever’s inside that’s been collected through repression needs to be let out. And if your mind has been badly programmed, you have to start changing some of that patterning because you need programmes that will support higher consciousness, not programmes that support lower consciousness. Of course, the main programme that supports lower consciousness is victim orientation, which is a dream, but it seems real. And it keeps us in a contracted state, a state of suffering, actually. And so, in eliminating that, you’re on the road to higher consciousness, just in eliminating that, victim orientated thinking. But, you know, we grew up in an environment where it was all victim orientated, our teachers, our parents, our friends, our relatives, everybody’s victim orientated.

Dr. Reese
The news.

Vishrant
The news, yeah. Someone who chooses to give up victim orientated thinking is someone who’s quite rare.

Dr. Reese
It’s tough, man. You know, I?

Vishrant
Yeah, but do you want to be a Jedi Knight or not? You can’t be a Jedi Knight and be a victim mate, you’ve got to be a Sith Lord to be a victim.

Dr. Reese
Yeah. Right, right. And yeah, I do want to be a Jedi. I do.

Vishrant
Okay, Obi Wan.

Dr. Reese
It took a lot of flip flopping to come to that, it took a lot of suffering to get to that desire. It’s like the last desire.

Vishrant
Yeah.

Dr. Reese
You know, this past winter and spring. I, I mean, I fell apart. Yeah, all we do is laugh.

Vishrant
I witnessed that, I witnessed you falling apart because you’re in contact with me.

Dr. Reese
Yeah. And I, I don’t, even in retrospect, I don’t really know what happened. My mind took over. And, you know, the best I can come up with is all those Osho discourses and all the, you know, doing the Satsangs with you, and you just stirred the pot and then all of a sudden, a catalyst comes in or or two. And you just go into this so called dark night, if that’s what we’re calling it, and it’s just this incredible cleansing, but it hurts. Because you don’t know what’s happening. Are you dying? Are you, you know, suicidal, like, all these things. And I remember reading your book, this is just back in September, and you said in your book, which is a transcription of Satsang, that when the stuff’s coming up, it affects the mind. And that the mind can go a little dark because the stuff’s coming up. And that’s what, that’s what it hit me that, you know, holy crap. It more than likely, stuff was coming up and that’s why my mind went so dark.

Vishrant
Yeah.

Dr. Reese
Because it’s not like it wasn’t on the path. I wasn’t a random person just going through this, otherwise someone could call it depression or what have you. But when you listen to that much Osho, that much Vishrant and you’re doing a podcast on spirituality. At some point, you’re gonna fall apart!

Vishrant
Everybody does. Everybody does because all of the, everything that’s in the way has to come down. Satsang is a process of destruction, not a process of building up, personal growth is building up, bigger, better and more powerful, but Satsang is an undoing process and you do fall apart. And the closer, the more you are in Satsang, the closer you are to someone who’s awake, the more you’re going to fall apart, because all the coping mechanisms that hold you together are going to get eroded. And whatever is underneath is going to come to the surface. And as it affects the mind, the mind wanting to be comfortable, it’s going to look for a reason for that feeling to be there. And it’s going to make stuff up, just so it can try to control it. And a lot of the stuff that it makes up, it’s not real either. As a matter of fact, it’s quite often victim orientated, which produces more of the same type of energy that you’re trying to get rid of. So, it’s a trap. It’s like a loop.

Dr. Reese
Yeah.

Vishrant
This is why, for me, it was very important for me to be with my teachers, to be with people who were further ahead, who were awake because they could see what was happening and they could guide me. Left to the ego, without a teacher, without a guide, the ego will try to be comfortable, it will try to survive, you’ll miss the boat.

Dr. Reese
And it’s not even real.

Vishrant
Well, beingness is real, everything else is just an appearance.

Dr. Reese
This is the paradox, this is the, you know.

Vishrant
I like the way that Ramana Maharshi put it, he said, beingness is real, everything else is an illusion, it’s all created by the mind, and I agree. But to understand that you have to be really experiencing awareness on awareness, awareness aware of beingness itself. And then it’s not a concept, it’s reality. We are one, I’m talking to myself. And I know that, this is a part of myself I like. There you go.

You see, a lot of people get caught in this thing where they don’t think they can love what they don’t like. But the truth is, we can love people we don’t like, all we have to do is be open. If we’re open, we can love everything and everyone. We don’t have to like them, we don’t have to like what they’re doing, but we can love them.

Dr. Reese
Right.

Vishrant
And love is so beautiful, it’s a true jewel of consciousness that’s here. And if you’re willing to practice openness, you’ll find it because the perception of it will be there because it’s always here. It’s here now. I love you now.

Dr. Reese
Ditto. I was so closed. I was so closed.

Vishrant
Yeah. You didn’t know you’re closed, you didn’t know. People who are closed quite often don’t realise how closed they are. People who are in lower consciousness don’t realise how locked in lower consciousness they are. It’s not until your consciousness levels rise, and you look back and you go, wow, was I lost? Moving towards that Jedi state, of course.

Dr. Reese
Yeah. And then in September, I remembered so clear because it was the first day of football, American football. And sitting there, alright, some games are on. And then all of a sudden, I noticed that I was so present. I went for a walk. And everything felt so different. I was what you call being switched on. And all my thoughts were wiped away. Like, the best way I can explain it is a windshield wiper on a car. Every thought was like, gone. Gone, like nothing lasted more than say, five seconds, just gone. And I was just like, this is awesome! I’m looking at trees with wonderment. You know, and it lasted five or six hours, I went to bed like that. And then in the morning, my mum pissed me off. And then the next few days, I was so upset that this, I feel like I got thrown into a state of reality. And it was taken out, it was taken away. I don’t know if it’s Satori, I don’t know what, but whatever it was that I experienced was gone.

Vishrant
Oh, it sounded like a Satori, a glimpse of reality, a glimpse of what is true, rather than the dream that you’ve been in, but as you were talking, you were mentioning football season starting in September. And as you go into that space you were talking about and you start to find the beauty and the love, you start to look at things in a very, very different way. You start seeing things like football, which is really, really popular, and this will probably disturb a lot of people, but it’s a form of violence. And it’s against the heart. It’s, you start feeling that, wow, that’s against the heart, that’s people trying to hurt each other to win. It’s like, not so nice. And then you look at it and you go, well, why would people be interested in that? And it’s a great big distraction. It takes people away from whatever is inside of them. And so they get distracted by watching football or even playing football but it’s a form of violence, it’s like war. There’s no heart. There’s no heart in war. It is hell. Just thought I’d mention that, I’m sure that won’t be popular but you know, it’s the truth. You find your heart and you have a lot of trouble playing competitive games because if you win, someone has to lose and that’s awful, to have someone lose. It’s your brother, it’s your sister, why would you want them to lose? So, I have a game. If I win, everyone has to win or I don’t play. This is the Way the Heart.

Dr. Reese
I like that.

Vishrant
I like it too. So, as your consciousness levels rise, you get to see all these little things that you hadn’t seen before. You took it for granted that football was great. I played rugby for 15 years, which is just licenced violence, really. So, it’s not like I wasn’t involved But as your consciousness levels rise, you get to see hey, that’s not cool. That’s not cool to try to hurt people to win. It’s not cool to be competitive. It’s cool to create connection because that supports heart.

Dr. Reese
This so called Satori was cool. How do I get it back? Actually, I think…

Vishrant
You asked the question, you’ve got to wait til I answer if you ask it.

Dr. Reese
Okay.

Vishrant
Keep letting go. You know, the practice of openness, which is what allows you to perceive heart or love, is the way. The more open you can be, you were telling me before you were really closed, I would agree with that, but you’re opening up, and this is the way to higher consciousness. You don’t raise your consciousness levels by being closed. I’ve met quite a few enlightened people now and one thing they all have in common is they’re wide, wide, wide open. And I’ll bet you they were wide, wide, wide open before awakening.

Dr. Reese
Before.

Vishrant
Before, it’s the way. Any defence system you have, any protective device you’re using, is actually in the way of higher consciousness, it’s an obstacle. And so, the answer to everything is yes.

Dr. Reese
Yes.

Vishrant
Yes. And so, I accept, I accept American football and Australian football and I accept rugby, but personally, I wouldn’t be involved because it’s violence, but I accept it totally. I don’t have a problem with people who play it, I don’t have a problem with people who watch it, but for myself, I’m not involved. I accept it all. And acceptance is the key, it’s the key to happiness, it’s the key to higher consciousness.

Dr. Reese
The big thing that I had to deal with during this time was the whole, was having sleep issues. That was the big thing because not sleeping makes your day not so good.

Vishrant
Hang on a second. You and I have discussed this before because when you were having sleep issues, I talked to you about it. Sometimes, I don’t sleep for days on end because the light is so bright.

Dr. Reese
Really?

Vishrant
Yeah and I just make it okay. I just make it okay. Particularly when I’m running retreats, sometimes I don’t sleep at all because the light is so bright. My mind just won’t turn itself in to sleep.

Huh.

But it’s just okay. And I run on empty, which is like using the least amount of energy to do the most amount of things. It’s pretty cool, but if you go into resistance to not being able to sleep, well that’d just make it harder for you to sleep.

Dr. Reese
That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. That was something I had to surrender to.

Vishrant
Indeed.

Dr. Reese
It took quite a while, it took months.

Vishrant
Yeah, but you’re stubborn. Most people are stubborn. It takes a lot, because we, stubbornness is resistance and that’s how we’ve all been programmed. We’ve all been programmed to be resistant, but if you want to go high in consciousness, you learn to let go, you learn to become less than, rather than more than.

Dr. Reese
Interesting story, back in May, I got together with Milarepa, who was a disciple of Osho, a sannyasin. He was one of the musicians. Turns out he lives in Connecticut where I live, he is only about an hour away. So, him and his girlfriend, they were like, hey we’re driving through. I was like, meet at a park, right? Yeah, I’m in the middle of my so called dark night. I mean, I’m going through it, you know? So, we met up and you know, we briefly talked about it and his girlfriend looks at me, and she’s from India. And she goes, you know in India, we say that the man who loses sleep is the man that’s on the verge of enlightenment. I don’t know if it’s true, but I was like, really?

Vishrant
That’s just what she says, I don’t know it’s true or not, but I do know that as you go through the dark night of the soul, which Carl Jung termed, you can have problems sleeping because your mind is disturbed by the energy that’s being purged. And so, this is just time to let go of a whole pile of stuff you’ve collected over lifetimes.

Dr. Reese
Lifetimes, not even 42 years, lifetimes.

Vishrant
You’re only 42 years old. Wow. Lifetimes. Yeah, I started to realise that a lot of the stuff coming out of me towards the end was actually older than this body. Such is life.

Dr. Reese
Well, that’s a good segue of something I wanted to ask you. In your book, Spiritual Mechanics, you mentioned you fell apart too. You went through it alone for the most p=art, right, Osho was gone.

Vishrant
Yeah, Osho was very hard to get to because he was so popular by the time I joined him. But by the time I joined Osho, I was 28, I’d already been at the higher consciousness game, undoing myself for nine years through organisations here in Australia because I loved it. I just loved undoing myself and raising my consciousness levels. It just blew me away that we could do it. I was wondering why we hadn’t been taught this stuff at school. Why have we been kept ignorant to higher consciousness? Why had we actually been programmed to live in lower consciousness? In other words, why had we been programmed to be unhappy? Blew my mind that we could actually be happy if we raised our consciousness levels.

Dr. Reese
Yeah.

Vishrant
Sweet.

Dr. Reese
Did you… What was your falling apart like? Was it in your 40s, as you approached that fateful, 45th year?

Vishrant
I went through different stages of falling apart, there was a lot of things that I had to deal with when I was younger because I had quite a violent upbringing, and I had to deal with the trauma inside of myself that was defended through anger and violence itself. And so, people who are traumatised have a whole pile of different defence systems to protect themselves from feeling that trauma, and my main defence system was anger. So, I had to learn to undo that completely because anger is just violence. There’s nothing good about anger. It’s just violence, and it creates separation. And so, I studied anger, and I removed it. I removed it because I removed victim orientated thinking, I stopped blaming other people, situations, blaming myself. I stopped blaming for how I felt. Something touched me, instead of blaming something for it, I owned it. I make myself feel.

Dr. Reese
And for those listening, this isn’t something you just snap your fingers, this is a lot of work, tedious work.

Vishrant
Oh yeah, absolutely. It took a long time because like everybody else, I’d been programmed to be a victim. I was programmed to believe that the world was wrong, that my parents are wrong, that authority was wrong, that people shouldn’t do this, they shouldn’t do that. Whole pile of belief systems that allowed me to be a victim of life. And I removed them all. I didn’t leave anything standing because I wanted to be free.

Dr. Reese
During your falling apart, did you do quite a bit of crying?

Vishrant
Heck yeah. River of tears.

Dr. Reese
Oh, my gosh, brutal.

Vishrant
Look, I was very fortunate in that I had, I had a lot of help. You know, I had a lot of good teachers who showed me the way. And I got into it when I was 19 years old. And slowly but surely, the bits and pieces of Vishrant that were in the way were removed. And as they were removed, less things tripped me up, life became happier. Life was more successful. It’s very hard to be successful when you’re constantly contracting against the world, but if you’re wide open, people want to play with you, because they can trust you because you’re wide open. And so, as my consciousness levels rose and I became more and more open, I found my life to be happier and happier, but and there is a big but with that, everything inside did come out. The dark night of the soul as Jung input it. Wow, it did happen.

Dr. Reese
I mean, I’ve cried more this year than my entire life.

Vishrant
Yeehaw. I wish I was there, I’d give you a big cuddle.

Dr. Reese
Thanks. Virtual hug.

Vishrant
Virtual hug. Yeah.

Dr. Reese
It’s just brutal, man. You know, I cried this morning.

Vishrant
Yeah, but that’s okay. It’s really wonderful that you can allow yourself to cry because it’s a wonderful way to let the pain out and to heal. If we’re willing to meet what’s inside of ourselves with a tender okayness, we can heal everything inside ourselves.

Dr. Reese
Tender okayness that’s brilliant but you know. I have on my little whiteboard in the office here, “Make everything okay.”

Vishrant
Yeah.

Dr. Reese
Be okay with everything. I got that from you. Just make everything okay, you know. Yeah, we’re carrying so much. The crying is, it’s cleansing though.

Vishrant
It is cleansing. Everybody carries pain. Everybody represses pain because we’re not in a society that expresses, we’re in a society that represses. So, everyone’s got pain body, and everybody, if they allow themselves to open up, will empty out, but most people don’t. They actually go to the graves full of pain and that’s such a shame because it doesn’t need to be so.

Dr. Reese
You said in Spiritual Mechanics, you said it’s tough because you don’t know how much pain someone’s carrying. You don’t know how big their pain body is. So, you don’t know when it’s gonna end. So, as a whole, this whole dark night falling apart thing has to be an acceptance, too, because you have to just be willing to just like, you don’t know, it could be the rest…

Vishrant
Forever.

Dr. Reese
Forever.

Vishrant
Forever. Yeah, forever because it’s like an onion, you peel a layer and you think, ah, God that’s gone. And then another layer appears, you go, oh my God, another layer, you know, but you just go, “Okay, this too, this too.” And you don’t go, you don’t play life be out of it. You don’t go and lock yourself away because you’re going through the dark night of the soul. You stay in life, you do what you need to do because we’re all lay people here. We’re not, we don’t have the luxury of being in a monastery or an ashram and be in sanctuary. A lot of us have got kids, we’ve got jobs to hold down. So, you do all this work while you’re working, while you’ve got your kids, while you’re in the marketplace, and it’s absolutely possible if you’re willing.

Dr. Reese
But couldn’t I just double down, get super duper disciplined and just hit the home run? Do I gotta go another 10 years with this crap or what?

Vishrant
See, if you hit a home run, who’s gonna win? You sure there’s no one losing here? You see, the whole game is let’s take everyone with us. And so, you wake up, you become enlightened and you become a light so others can see but for that to occur, you don’t get to hit the home run, you get to die. There’s no, you don’t, you don’t win because you disappear. Enlightenment happens and then you as an ‘I’ drop because it’s obvious you’re not real. Most people think they’re an ‘I’. They think they’re a somebody that’s been somewhere, that’s going somewhere, that’s made up of reference points but you take away your imagination and you do not exist.

Dr. Reese
It’s so obvious too, once you start going deeper, it’s so obvious. Maybe someone just needs a Satori to really understand but it’s obvious. It’s so obvious. That’s what’s so challenging and irritating about it, is it’s obvious.

Vishrant
So, looking at looking at you, and I’m feeling you because I can feel people, it’s lovely that I can feel you. And I can feel that in a way you’re fighting the silence inside yourself because we’re doing an interview, and your job is to question me. You’re holding yourself together, I can feel you holding yourself together but I can feel that inside of you, there’s an expansion in your mind that’s happening, there’s an expansion and it starts to struggle to find questions. You’re starting to struggle to talk. Let go. Bang! You see, you let go.

Dr. Reese
I don’t know if right now is the right time to let go.

Vishrant
That’s the problem, because you’re working and you’re interviewing, it’s not the right time, but this is what happened to me interviewing Osho Rajneesh. I was interviewing him and I started losing my mind and I had to really struggle to hold my mind together because of his energy field, when what would have been better for me at the time would have been to just let go and go blah, but I also, I saw all that in hindsight, you see. And so, people interview me, like yourself, and slowly their mind starts to lose its integrity to some degree, and they lose their acumen to interview. And instead of actually just letting go and going, blah, surrendering to that space, which is always here, they continue to hold on and try to make it work and try to make it professional. You see, from my perspective, when you asked me to do an interview, I’m here to help you wake up. I’m not here to do an interview.

I see someone who has the potential of being a light so others can see. That’s what I see. Why would I waste it on an interview when I can actually talk to you like this? And you can have a look and start to feel that silences and stillness in your own mind because it’s disappearing.

Dr. Reese
Always trying to drown me.

Vishrant
Exactly. Drowned in the nothingness. So, you find yourself as the nothingness, and that’s what happened to me. I was walking around the abyss, looking at the nothingness and then suddenly, I found I was the abyss, I was the nothingness. And I’m talking to another part of the nothingness that’s got a little bit that hasn’t let go yet. And when that little bit lets go, that that’s aware of your mind is going to become aware of itself, and that that’s enlightenment, that’s Satori. If it stays, it’s enlightenment. Always trying to take people there because that’s the place, that’s who we truly are, it’s what we really are. Not the one that thinks it knows, not the one that wants to do an interview but the one that is simply aware, that vast nothingness that is so beautiful, and is here now.

Dr. Reese
I think one of the obstacles for me has been the so called spiritual ego.

Vishrant
Ah, spiritual ego, yeah.

Dr. Reese
Because now what happens is the mind, it’s like, the mind now has daydreams of being enlightened.

Vishrant
Yeah.

Dr. Reese
And it’s funny like…

Vishrant
Well, you can sign up, I can tell you the deal. Everything for truth and nothing for you. It’s the only deal on the table and it’s the best deal in town. Everything for truth, or everything for God, whatever you want to call truth, God, and nothing for you, as an ‘I’, nothing for you. And that’s the deal. There is no other deal. And quite often that deal will begin with everything for heart because people love love. So, everything for love and nothing for you, it’s the same deal.

Dr. Reese
It’s interesting, I had Rabbi Manis Friedman on this podcast. He’s a very popular Rabbi on YouTube and whatnot, and he was talking about how God is needy. And he said, too many people got it wrong, he says everyone’s like, what can God do for me? What can God do for me? He goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You have to do for God.

Vishrant
Sounds like JFK. Don’t ask what America can do for you, ask what you can do for America.

Dr. Reese
God is needy. God is needy.

Vishrant
I hear you, but I don’t see it that way, I’d love to have a chat with this guy but I don’t see it that way. Neediness belongs to the mind, God is everything, God is everything. Not the mind, the mind is so small, so limited. Existence doesn’t need anything because it’s perfect exactly as it is.

You conceptualise God but there’s a big difference between conceptualising God and knowing God as self or knowing truth as self. The concept is a part of the mind, it’s so small. The knowing self as truth, you can’t possibly even talk about it, let alone describe it, really. It’s just impossible. It’s too vast, our minds are too small to even comprehend what is being seen.

Dr. Reese
Do you think that’s why traditionally, or going back to Gautama the Buddha and whatnot, do you think that’s why he kept God out of it? He didn’t want anyone to become attached to that, just move that to the side and let’s just focus on the discipline.

Vishrant
The whole whole idea of you and God is separation, and that’s in the way, creating yourself as separate from God. When God is omnificent, omnipresent. A God is everything. And when that that’s aware of your mind becomes aware of itself, that is seen as such, that we are all of that. And that’s enlightenment, if it’s ongoing, if it’s only a short period it’s a Satori. So, people experience self as everything in Satori or they might experience the brightness and the silence and the stillness, there’s different types of Satori, there’s different levels of it, but basically, everything is God. But we as human beings tend to project ourselves onto God. And this is a mistake because God is everything and this is just a spacesuit with an onboard computer that thinks it’s important. And it’s not, it’s just a part of everything. So, it’s almost like the body and the mind is an avatar that beingness, which is everything, gets to experience this plane in, but it’s not personal in any way, shape, or form because we are everything. How can it be personal? I am you, you are me, we are one. No personal.

Dr. Reese
Sometimes when I’m switched on, and I’m watching the mind, I just laugh at it.

Vishrant
Good.

Dr. Reese
Sometimes I’ll talk to it, I say, hey, go ahead, keep going. I’ll just watch you, that’s fine. Perform. What… See, now I lost my thought.

Vishrant
Yeah, I know you. You’re gone, but it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful to be gone. I spend my life gone. Gone, gone, gone beyond.

Dr. Reese
Gate, gate.

Vishrant
Yeah gate, gate, paragate. Beautiful.

Dr. Reese
Parasamgate bodhi svaha.

Vishrant
Yeah, that’s the one.

Dr. Reese
So, who are, people that are deeply religious, and usually the Abrahamic religions, but who are they talking to when they pray to God?

Vishrant
Themselves. You see, you love God with your whole heart, your whole mind your whole body, you love God and in that love, you disappear and find yourself as that. Love is another vehicle or another doorway because you surrender to love and it allows you to know yourself as the truth, but you give your whole life to God or whatever you want to call it. And then instead of knowing yourself as this little ‘I’, which is so small, you know yourself as the universe, ongoing, this is enlightenment. And we are all that, not just some people, everyone is that, but we have this bad habit of projecting things onto God that have nothing to do with God. God is everything and we are that, and in some religions that would be seen as blasphemy. I really don’t care because it’s the truth. We are that, we are everything also.

Dr. Reese
Yeah, this is…

Vishrant
But not personal. It’s not like the ‘I’ is claiming that. It’s just a fact, we are all that. The idea of good, bad, right, wrong, I don’t get it. It’s like, it’s just what is. It is perfection upon perfection upon perfection. How can God be imperfect in any way, shape or form? It’s all God. It’s all truth, everything. Perfection upon perfection, love upon love upon love.

Dr. Reese
So, what’s the purpose of life?

Vishrant
Good question. When you find out, let me know. I don’t know, I’ve been looking since I was a boy for the meaning of life. The ego wants to have a purpose because it wants to think that it’s going somewhere, it wants to think that it’s going to survive because after all, it is a survival mechanism, but I have been looking for nearly 60 years, I can’t find any purpose in life or any meaning in life, except life itself. But as human beings, because of our intelligence, we have the ability to get out of the way enough and turn that that’s aware of the mind onto itself and wake up, to know ourselves as truth. Not personally but to wake up and know ourselves as that that is everything. And the seeker is the one that goes for it. You’re a seeker, you’re going for it, and not that many people are going to understand you.

Dr. Reese
They don’tUnderstand now with being an alternative health care practitioner, that’s bad enough. Oh, man. If you knew, this is all hypothetical, but if you knew what you know now, let’s just say at 19, could you have fast tracked it and not gone from 19 to 45?

Vishrant
Yes.

Dr. Reese
You could have, you could have doubled down.

Vishrant
Could have fast tracked it because I could have practiced acceptance and the totality of acceptance a lot earlier, I could have known, in that case, that the doorway is death of the ‘I’, that the ‘I’ doesn’t survive the journey into reality, because the ‘I’ itself is not real. I could have, and the willingness to let go of everything is death. The willingness to be a nothing, a nobody going nowhere, is death. You surrender unconditionally, no conditions whatsoever. You do not know what’s going to happen after awakening occurs. You don’t even know if the body’s going to survive it. You just don’t know. I meet these people who say, I want to get enlightened and I want to write a book and I want to do public lectures after I wake up and I want to be a Satsang teacher. You have no idea what’s going to happen. You mightn’t make it, you might end up dead, that’s what might happen. You don’t know, you just don’t know. All these projections are rubbish because one of the things that definitely happens upon awakening, if not a long time before, is you become extremely present to reality. There is no future, there is no past, there is only now.

Dr. Reese
I know. I knew it for like five or six hours.

Vishrant
Yeah. It’s so true.

Dr. Reese
Not completely though, because there still was thoughts but they just didn’t last, they just…

Vishrant
So, what’s happening in your head right now?

Dr. Reese
Oh, just what’s the next question going to be? Why is it so hot in here because it’s like 75 in here?

Vishrant
Look into your head right now, without trying to look for questions, because I know you’re trying to do an interview, but look into your mind and see how empty it is right now.

Dr. Reese
Yeah.

Vishrant
This is why people come to Satsang. This is why people come and play with me. Their minds become vacant. They find peace but really they’re, someone who’s awake is a doorway to your own true nature. Out of the dream, out of the matrix of the mind into reality, but we’re so used to noise, the silence that gets found is missed, the stillness that gets found as missed because we’re so accustomed to noise, the noise of the mind.

Dr. Reese
Man, it just doesn’t shut up sometimes.

Vishrant
What about right now?

Dr. Reese
Today, I was at the park and what I do is this little exercise where I focus on the bushes or the trees, and I’ll find a line of bushes or trees. And I try to take my eyes from one to the other without a thought. Jedi training, you know.

Vishrant
What happens if you focus on my eyes?

Dr. Reese
Oh no!

Vishrant
When I looked into my teachers’ eyes, my awake teachers’ eyes, I found my death because I found that vast nothingness that we are. And in that, the ‘I’ dropped and I found my death as an ‘I’, but that opened a whole ‘nother world of reality. The false one had dropped, and now reality was shining. It was obvious. I love talking to you, Kevin.

Dr. Reese
I once heard you say that you had a Satori while you were driving.

Vishrant
I had one about two or three weeks ago. I’m always in Satori but the Satori was bigger and I disappeared completely out of the vehicle. And then the passenger noticed that the vehicle was on the wrong side of the road headed towards the trees. I’d actually left the body, and they grabbed me by the arm, and I come back into the body, and there I was on the wrong side of the road headed towards the trees, because I was driving. Yeah, and so I’m not driving long distance anymore because when I drive, I start to really, really go back and back and back and back to a point where there’s just no awareness out here anymore.

Dr. Reese
Most people would just say you’re a crazy old man.

Vishrant
Oh, I’m absolutely a crazy old man. Absolutely, absolutely.

Dr. Reese
You are knocking on 70.

Vishrant
Wow. That’s in this lifetime. What about, just on this planet, about 10,000 years. We’ve been here before, we repeat this over and over again. I have no idea why but we do. We come back, we get born, we do the whole thing again, the whole suffering trip again, then we die. Then we get reborn again. We do it again.

Dr. Reese
But you’ve beat the game.

Vishrant
That sounds like there’s something to win when you say that. From the perspective of the ego, yeah, I guess so, but from the perspective of reality, it just doesn’t matter. Nothing does. It’s all perfect. The good, the bad, and the ugly of it is all perfect. So, you’ve got to look at what perspective you’re looking at it from. The ego eventually gives itself to truth and in that it dies, it drops, and then there’s just nothingness as self. People are frightened of that, they think all that’s negative. No, it’s beautiful. It is beautiful to know yourself as truth, but we’re so frightened of the unknown because that’s what the mind is programmed to do. Be fearful of what it doesn’t know and people believe the fear. It’s not real, fear is a projection.

Dr. Reese
Do you and other Buddhas not tell us everything?

Vishrant
Some, some don’t. Some don’t tell people how hard it is to wake up. Some people, some Buddhas don’t say how difficult it’s going to be, and I think that’s a mistake. I think the seeker deserves to know the truth as to how hard it’s going to be and what needs to happen. And when I was a seeker, as a human being, I only hung out with teachers who could see me, and who were prepared to tell me what they could see. I wasn’t interested in anyone who was flattering me because I already knew that I was great. I didn’t need to be told, what I needed to be told was where I was going wrong, where I was stepping off the track, where I was making mistakes. And so, I sought out teachers who were like that. And so, some teachers don’t tell people enough of the truth, I feel. And I think a seeker deserves the truth, they deserve to know how it works. That’s why I put out a book [about] the nuts and bolts of spirituality because people need to know. If you’re going to take yourself apart, you need to know how.

Dr. Reese
I really mean the supernatural stuff. Like I once heard…

Vishrant
Supernatural?

Dr. Reese
Yeah, well, I don’t know what else to call it, but I mean, like the stuff you just talked about, in the car. There’s, I guess what I’m asking is there’s got to be things that Buddha didn’t say, or Osho, or whoever, because you’re meeting the seeker where they’re at. Which is a programmed mind, stuck in the ego. You start talking some leaving the body stuff, right. That’s not where they’re at, unless they’re doing it, you know? They need to worry about not getting triggered by mum. You know what I mean? That’s where I’m at.

Vishrant
Awareness is everywhere, and we are that. So, you talk about it being supernatural. It’s not supernatural, it is natural. We are everything.

In a lot of ways, in a lot of ways, it’s artificial to think of yourself as an ‘I’ because the ‘I’ is just made up of dream, it’s not real, but the universe is real. Beingness is real, truth is real, heart is real. The mind is not and what it thinks about itself in the world is not real. They’re just thoughts, they’re just imagination. The quest for the seeker is to find what is real as self, that is the quest.

Dr. Reese
What’s the meaning of, say, Jesus walking on water?

Vishrant
I don’t know. I never saw him.

Dr. Reese
Never?

Vishrant
No, I can’t recall meeting Jesus, no. It would have been memorable but I don’t remember, no. If the water is really really really shallow, I can walk on it, but that’s it’d have to be like, this deep. Apparently, Jesus walked on very deep water, I don’t know. This is the thing, it’s like, the more you recognise and acknowledge that you don’t know, the closer to reality you’re getting because we don’t know. We just want to know so we can control things because we don’t like not knowing, we don’t like being out of control, it frightens us, but the more, the higher in consciousness you go, the more you realise we really don’t know. We don’t know anything. And then you can live in I don’t know, which is a state of wonderment. It’s beautiful, I don’t know.

Dr. Reese
What about something like levitation?

Vishrant
Well, it’s a Jedi power. I’ve been trying that sort of thing for ages, but I’m just not good at it?

Dr. Reese
You mean, you can’t fly yet?

Vishrant
I can fly but not with the body. It’s like, astral travel is something that can happen but the body just stays on the ground. Gravity is really strong, man. What can I say?

Dr. Reese
Oh, man. Wow. Well, you can’t. This Satori that you had, recently you just talked about in the car. It was just random? Like, so you had no control over it, it just happened?

Vishrant
Right at this moment, I’m aware of you, but I’m also aware of the universe as self. Now if my awareness of you disappeared, I would just be aware of the universe as self. And that’s what happened in the car. Instead of being… I was aware of universe as self and the road and driving, but awareness pulled back away from the mind, away from the world, and back on itself. And so, there was a disappearance of awareness out here because awareness can face more than one direction, it can face in and out. In most human beings, it faces the mind, and through the mind, senses the world. And that’s how most humans live their whole life, with awareness on their mind, and through the senses the world, in someone who’s awake, awareness is on itself, but it can also be on the mind and through the senses, the world. But it’s on itself, and it’s always on itself. If it’s not on itself, it’s not awake. There’s no awakening. It has to be on itself. So, Satori, as Satori is described, is happening right at this moment.

Dr. Reese
After I had my so called Satori, September, the ego also grabbed a hold of it because then it wanted, it wanted to tell people. I almost wanted to go on my Facebook page and say, “Guess what?”

Vishrant
Yeah.

Dr. Reese
So, that’s what I’m talking about. It’s just the spiritual ego, like the mind seems to; anything it can sink its claws into.

Vishrant
In Buddhism, there’s a saying, if you meet the Buddha on the path, kill the Buddha. The Satori that you had is the Buddha, if you don’t kill it, it will haunt you and you’ll compare everything to it. And that comparison is a dream. It takes you away from reality. And so, you kill the Buddha, you forget the past, you forget the Satori, you forget it completely. Leave it alone. Be fresh with what’s here now. Always.

Dr. Reese
Always.

Vishrant
Always.

Dr. Reese
But then you can disappear.

Vishrant
You don’t exist anyway. You’re just a figment of your own imagination mate.

Dr. Reese
That’s the thing Vish it’s, all right.

The subconscious mind is involved here in some way, right? This is like our, I view the subconscious mind almost like a television and playing your programming, could be something from when you’re two years old or two lifetimes ago, you don’t even know. And it’s just projecting something. Is that, is this like, where our karma is? Is this where our… Subconscious mind, some people call it the inner child too.

Vishrant
Well, inner child work, yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know the answer. I hear what you’re saying, I just don’t know. The subconscious mind is just part of the mind. Then you have the reptilian mind, which is kind of like, real basic, primal stuff, but you can surrender it all. We have the ability to surrender everything and be free, but most people will never surrender because they don’t want to let go of control. They want to maintain safety through control, and someone who’s awake has let go of control. They’ve surrendered.

Dr. Reese
Does this include some of your community members in Satsang? Are they not ready to let go?

Vishrant
If someone is ready to let go, they would have let go.

Dr. Reese
Hold on, now let’s relate this back to your journey, though.

Vishrant
Yeah.

Dr. Reese
You’re saying you weren’t ready to let go until you were 45 years old?

Vishrant
I thought I was ready after the first Satoris, you know, 12 years before, but I wasn’t ready. There were things that I was still unconsciously attached to, still things I was unconsciously connected to that I hadn’t surrendered. And so, I had to go in there and just find those things and let go, let go, let go. The game was openness, I played the game of openness. And the more open you can be, the more you can let go. Anywhere where you’re closed is a trap. It’s where you’re stuck. Anything you’re hanging on to is a prison.

Dr. Reese
People see you now and they’re probably saying, you’re looking, wow, this guy is living the life. He’s unbothered, enlightened, etc. But you’ve been through a lot of pain. In your book, I heard you, and in a video, you don’t mention it often, but you lost a child.

Vishrant
Yeah.

Dr. Reese
That’s heavy duty.

Vishrant
It is, but you’ve got to understand that what I am and what you are cannot be touched by anything, ever. Under any circumstances, the mind can be touched, the body can be touched, but what we are cannot be touched, beingness cannot be touched by anything and I live as that. Well, a better way of putting that is I exist is that because what we are was never born and it cannot die. So, it can’t really live. It just is.

Dr. Reese
Were you awake? When his passing happened?

Vishrant
Yes. It was only four years.

Dr. Reese
Four years ago?

Vishrant
Yeah.

Dr. Reese
Wow. Okay.

Vishrant
Yeah he went, he went back to the light.

Dr. Reese
How do you, how do you and he, he was like 20, something like that?

Vishrant
Yeah, that’s right. He died from bone cancer, took him about 18 months to die after diagnosis. And it was when he, when the diagnosis occurred, I felt at that particular moment that he was going to die, but he wanted to try to survive, as everybody does. And so, we flew him all around the world getting different treatments that he wanted to get and we tried our best to help him save himself, but it didn’t work in the long run. Wasn’t meant to be.

Dr. Reese
Obviously, he knows what you do. Is there…?

Vishrant
He was, I respected him, he didn’t want me… He’d been in to many Satsangs. He was a part of the community, but he didn’t want me to talk to him about surrendering to death and so, I respected that, and I didn’t because he didn’t want to face death. And it’s very hard for young person to face death but if you want to wake up, it’s the only possibility because the ‘I’ does die, it drops. It doesn’t have a future anymore. It doesn’t have a past anymore. Ultimately, we’re not human beings, we are being, and when enlightenment occurs, you exist as being, you don’t exist as a human being anymore, not really, because you’ve gone beyond it. You know yourself as truth, not as an ‘I’, not as a body but as truth. You know yourself as that. And knowing self as that, you’re beyond everything. You cannot be touched by anything. You cannot be defeated by anything.

Dr. Reese
You can still have physical pain?

Vishrant
Well, the body can have physical pain. That’s true, but the likelihood that you’re going to resist it is pretty limited as well. I don’t resist anything. Why would I, that’s suffering? Why would I do that? There’s no point resisting anything, ever.

Dr. Reese
So, if you were given 18 months, it would be whatever, you would meet that with indifference?

Vishrant
If I was to be given a minute, I would be exactly the same as I am right now. In acceptance of everything as it is, no resistance, none whatsoever, why? My mind knows better than to resist life.

Dr. Reese
We’re gonna physically die, and there’s no, it’s what is.

Vishrant
It sure is. Everybody’s going to die. You’re going to die, this body here is going to die. This is the reality of the world we live in. It’s okay.

Dr. Reese
Is this video going to die?

Vishrant
Look, everything, everything’s terminal. Everything has a time.

Dr. Reese
We don’t know if there’s even going to be an internet in 100 years.

Vishrant
Wow, I’m in tears already. I’ve got a guy coming over today from Queensland, he’s flying over and he’s bringing all this VR equipment over with him. So, we’re going to get into some virtual reality, I’m looking forward to it, sounds like fun.

Dr. Reese
Maybe that’s the purpose, it’s just play.

Vishrant
Oh, it is just to play, but today in Australia is Remembrance Day, the 11th of the 11th, it’s when World War Two finished and we honour that day for the veterans who fought in that war on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month. And in a little while I’ll be going to walk from the RSL, which is returned soldiers league, to a memorial with a group of men who have been soldiers to honour their service to our country, and that’s what I’m doing this morning. Now, I know that we’re all beingness, and I’m living is that, but I just love humans. And so, I’m going to walk with them and love them as they do their remembering.

Dr. Reese
Yeah, I see, I see your pictures sometimes, you’re part of some sort of group, some sort of club, motor club or something?

Vishrant
Motorcycle club, yeah. The Military Brotherhood motorcycle club.

Dr. Reese
Yeah.

Vishrant
Cool.

Dr. Reese
Are you… do they notice that you’re living as beingness or you just…?

Vishrant
No, nobody notices. Why would they notice? I’m just… I don’t want to stand out. I don’t want to be special. I’m a nobody going nowhere and I’m moving in that direction pretty rapidly. Life is so brilliant, just as it is. There’s nowhere to go, there’s nothing to get. We’re on this damn ball travelling through space at 25,000 miles an hour without anyone driving. What’s everyone so worried about?

Dr. Reese
Yeah, people are scared to die Vishrant, you know? They’re scared to suffer.

Vishrant
But we’re programmed to be frightened of death because the mind is a survival mechanism, the body is a survival mechanism, but that’s all human beings, in a lot of ways are, survival mechanisms, but because of our intelligence we can go beyond survival and love. And that’s the beauty of being a human being, we can love. We can learn to put ourselves aside enough, open up enough, to perceive love. How wonderful is that?

Dr. Reese
What you just said before that, are you alluding to the fact that as time goes, as Earth time goes, you’re sort of fading away? Hence, that Satori you just had in the car?

Vishrant
Yes. That’s true.

Dr. Reese
Like how Yoda disappeared.

Vishrant
I do like Yoda.

Dr. Reese
Well, I just, because you look at a lot of the enlightened masters, self realised masters, they don’t live that old. I can’t recall one being 100 years old or anything like that.

Vishrant
No, well, I don’t get to talk to anyone anyway. I don’t have any attraction at all to awakened people, they’re already lights. I have an attraction to those who want to be lights, those who are seekers, those who are willing, they attract me. I don’t have anything to say to someone who’s already awake, there’s nothing to say.

Dr. Reese
Yeah, they would say that they just sit there in silence, right, when you meet?

Vishrant
Yeah, pretty much.

Dr. Reese
Because the Buddha fields are just connecting, I guess?

Vishrant
Well, my experience of being in the presence of other awake people is the Buddha field seems to get stronger. And if we could have a lot of Buddha fields on this planet, it would be really good for the population here, but we don’t have that many, which is a shame because not that many people are willing to pay the ultimate price for freedom, which is death of the ‘I’. Unconditional surrender of the ‘I’. Because the ‘I’ thinks it’s real, but it’s not. The ‘I’ thinks it’s real but it’s not. It’s not who we are. The ‘I’ thinks it’s who we are but it’s not, we are beingness, we are pure awareness and we are here now as everything, not as a somebody, not personal.

Dr. Reese
So, what do I got to do? As my so called final steps to let go?

Vishrant
See, different people who are awake give people things to do that will actually help them wake up. These things are called sadhanas. And the sadhana that I give most people is the sadhana of openness. You practice openness and acceptance with everything in life and it will set you free. The only thing that keeps you in prison is your constant resistance to life, which you’re programmed to do. So, it’s natural for you to do that but to go against that is to practice openness, is to practice acceptance of life as it is, and witness the mind instead of getting caught in the mind. Just watch the mind and you start to see how it’s, how it operates. And you can take apart the bits that are keeping you trapped. So, you witness the mind and you practice openness. This is enough to take you home to your own true nature but it does demand that you actually witness the mind and that you practice openness, thinking what I’ve said is a good idea isn’t enough. Thinking it’s a bad idea, well, I can’t help you. My teacher, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, taught witnessing the mind and meditation, being present to what is real and simply watching the mind.

Dr. Reese
He liked Vipassana and he liked, he liked everything about Buddha.

Vishrant
He did, he liked Buddha, he liked Lao Tzu, he liked a lot of the awakened ones, but he was kind of brilliant.

Dr. Reese
He was.

Vishrant
Very bright light.

Dr. Reese
He was poetry.

Vishrant
Now what we need to see is a bright light there, a Kevin Reese bright light. Yeah, yeah. But I must go, it is time for me.

Dr. Reese
Okay. Yeah. You’re not gonna disappear, are you?

Vishrant
I disappeared 22 years ago. I’m just pretending to be here. I’ve been pretending to be a human now for 22 years. There’s no human here. That all died 22 years ago when the mind dropped, when awareness discovered itself and stayed on itself. People love to think they’re human beings but most people are human doings anyway, they’re constantly doing things, they’re not even being. We are actually being.

Dr. Reese
Again, my last question. Hypothetically, and you saying life would have been even better for you if it would have happened at a younger age instead of just 22 years ago?

Vishrant
Yeah, you’re making a comparison, making something better and something worse.

Dr. Reese
That’s true. That’s true. Yeah.

Vishrant
I don’t live like that. I accept everything as it is, not better not… Yeah it’s what is. What is is okay.

Dr. Reese
Let me rephrase that. If a 19 year old came to you, and said, should I do this? Right now, all the way? Should my ‘I’ die? Go through this dark night, go through this hell and get to this light. Should I do it now at 19? Would you say yes or no?

Vishrant
Absolutely, yes because enlightenment is freedom from a life of suffering.

Dr. Reese
Suffering is optional, is it not?

Vishrant
Well, suffering is what people do when they live as an ‘I’ because it constantly resists life. Freedom is knowing yourself as truth. No suffering anymore because you don’t resist life. You accept it.

Dr. Reese
Vishrant, thank you for this talk today.

Vishrant
Thank you for being a lovely student.

Oh, that’s cool. You’re so much fun Kevin. You see, after our interviews, you became one of my students because you kept contacting me. So, today you got treated like one of my students. If you had never come across, if you’d never come to me asking me questions, I would never have taken you on as a student and I would never have treated you the way I did today, but once you’re a student mate, I don’t stop. My intention is to help you wake up to your true nature. Absolutely, because that’s what you want, and I know that.

Dr. Reese
I really don’t have any more questions.

Vishrant
I know you don’t, you didn’t have any more about half an hour ago, you were gone. Unless you’ve got them written in front of you. And that’s what happened to me with Osho. I had to, I had them written down and I had to read them because I lost my lost my questioning ability.

Dr. Reese
Yes, you were like, staring at the piece of paper a lot. I remember.

Vishrant
Yeah. And I couldn’t read it. Osho’s energy was very powerful.

Dr. Reese
But do you think everyone in there could feel it?

Vishrant
Oh heck yeah. The people that were in the room, there were probably about 30 people in the room, and they were all very close Sannyasins, they were all the close crowd. And he had his guards in there as well. And the room was zero degrees, you know, in temperature, would have been 32 Fahrenheit because he was taking on so much energy from everyone in the room, it was heating him up. And so, even when he was on stage in the big auditorium, he had three air conditioners, in his chair, on him because he would have been cooking because you take on all the energy of everyone around you. Energy flows from empty to full, from full, sorry, to empty, and he would have been very empty. So, he would have been taking massive amounts on. So, it was when I went to see him, it was summer, yet the room was absolutely zero. I had to wear warm clothes, like I had to wear a coat to interview him because I was so cold.

Would have loved to have actually been able to speak to him on a more personal level but he wasn’t available. You couldn’t talk to him. He had, you know, 20,000 people around him. Finding people who are awake to talk to is really quite hard.

Dr. Reese
It is.

Vishrant
It is. That was a funny interview mate. I hope you have fun with it.

Dr. Reese
Of course.

Vishrant
What did you think Tosh? Tosh liked it. He’s sitting here, and so is Isha.

Dr. Reese
Okay. Hello, hello. Yeah, we had fun.

Vishrant
Oh, we had fun. I got into your head a little bit.

Dr. Reese
Yeah.

Vishrant
But that’s my job. My job is to get into your head and expand your mind. That’s my job. It’s not that, I’m not really there to answer questions. I’m there to actually try to help you see the space that you already are because the answers to the questions won’t really help you. That just gives you more knowledge, you know?

Dr. Reese
Right. Well, that’s what I mean. Like, I don’t have any more questions, like there’s nothing.

Vishrant
I like the Star Wars thing, the Jedi thing.

Dr. Reese
Yeah. I’m a big, I’m a Star Wars geek. I like Star Wars a lot.

Vishrant
Yes, so am I. I watched it recently, again, I watched all of them again, in order. You know, I love it. I believe there’s another one coming out at the end of this year or the beginning of next year. Yeah, and there’s also more Star Trek.

Dr. Reese
I don’t know if you know this, but in the series, The Clone Wars, The Animated Series.

Vishrant
Yeah, I didn’t watch, I’ve never seen the animated series.

Dr. Reese
It’s amazing. It’s amazing. In the, I want to say the last season, Yoda goes through the dark night of the soul.

Vishrant
Do you know that I have the Stormtrooper outfit, the stage Stormtrooper outfit? And up until about 10 years ago, I used to go down into Fremantle, and wear it, with a couple of lieutenants with cups, and we used to raise money and funds for an organisation called COSA in Thailand that rescued young girls from prostitution. And on a Sunday afternoon, walking around, I’d get between, for an hour and a half, I’d get between four and $500 donated, and we just send it back up to Thailand. And I was a member of the 501’s, which is an organisation of people who wear the outfits and go out to children’s hospitals and entertain kids.

Dr. Reese
Just loving people.

Vishrant
I got kicked out of the 501’s for running my own show because the COSA thing was my idea, and they didn’t want to play and I kept doing it. So, they got upset with me, but when I was up in Thailand, I got to meet a policeman who was involved in helping young girls get out of prostitution. And he belonged to an organisation up there that was doing that. And he needed, they needed money. So, I raised funds for them.

Dr. Reese
Buddha doing charity work.

Vishrant
Why not? What else is there to do? People get all these false ideas of what awake means, they get a real misunderstanding of what awake is. They don’t get it. They don’t get it.

Dr. Reese
Well, you got someone like Osho, who was godlike, if that’s a good term, like he’s…

Vishrant
Yeah but he sat in a chair too long. You see, I started to disappear about 15 or 16 years ago and I went out and bought a motorbike, because I knew I was disappearing, so I could be more out in the world again, stay in the world. Because 15 years ago, I still had little kids and I still had a Sangha and I wanted to be effective in the material world for them. And so, I could feel the disappearing happening then. So, I went about being involved with things that kept me out, rather than took me in. Osho went and sat alone in his chair all day long. Of course you’re going to disappear.

Dr. Reese
Oh, not just that but you know, the body needs motion. Just as much as it needs food and he didn’t move.

Vishrant
No.

Dr. Reese
So, that’s not good. That’s not healthy.

Vishrant
Well for the first six months, that happened to me too. I just stared at space. I sat in my chair and stared at space. And one of my teachers came and got me out, yeah. But he just sat still, he didn’t move, he’d stay in his room just sitting still, staring at space. And if I do that for even a couple of hours, I lose language, I lose the ability to talk. So, we’re going down now, I’ve got Tosh and Isha waiting, we’re getting our black gear on and we’re going on the Harley Davidsons down to Remembrance Day.

Dr. Reese
Your three wheeled bike?

Vishrant
No, I’m going to take, I bought a new Harley and I’m going to take the Harley.

Dr. Reese
Okay.

Vishrant
It’s a Softail.

Dr. Reese
Okay. Just don’t disappear on it.

Vishrant
Yeah, well, it’s not a long distance from here. It’s only about a 15 minute, 20 minute ride. It’s the long rides where I actually tend to move more backwards. Though, after Satsang I’ve stopped riding my motorbike after Satsangs, it’s too dangerous, can’t corner, not in my body enough to corner, too removed.

Dr. Reese
And you don’t even have to ask what’s aware.

Vishrant
No, I haven’t done that for 22 years.

Dr. Reese
I meant to ask you that. Was that the final practice that put it over the top for you? At 45, when all those 1000s of Satoris started happening, was it self enquiry?

Vishrant
Not really, no, I mean, what happened was I was in retreat with an awake teacher and I found myself as beingness while in the retreat, and after the retreat it remained, it didn’t go away. And so, self enquiry had already finished. You don’t need to enquire if you’re knowing, if awareness is already aware of itself.

And you do know when awareness is aware of itself because it is not to be missed. Like, I know I’m the universe right now, while I’m talking to you. It can’t be missed. It’s just so overpoweringly obvious to the mind.

Dr. Reese
It sits the mind down.

Vishrant
Well, the mind is already flatlined, anyway, it doesn’t… You know, when I stop talking, the mind doesn’t talk to itself. It just stays silent.

Dr. Reese
Sounds lovely.

Vishrant
It is lovely. Also, it’s like, for whatever reason, I was born with a Mercurian mind, a mind that moves very quickly. And so, it can answer questions really quickly. You meet some teachers who answer very slowly, but they just don’t have the Mercurian mind, it’s a physical aspect. You have a Mercurian mind also. Though, I’ve been trying to put it in tar.

I do have to go mate, I’ve got to go. I’ve got to go.

Dr. Reese
Thank you very much.

Vishrant
Yeah, namaste. Lovely to talk to you, Kevin. I hope you have fun with that video mate.